In this week’s episode of the Hotel Moment podcast, Marc Winchell, Corporate CRM at Pacific Hospitality Group, joins Karen Stephens, Revinate CMO, with a compelling call to action for hoteliers to focus on generating direct business if they want to build a loyalty program that lasts. Marc disavows points-based loyalty programs, and he details how hoteliers should instead use personalization as a tool to deepen guest relationships and provide tailored communication that OTAs can’t compete with.

Tune in and find out how to build a database full of loyal guests by leveraging guest data to inspire direct bookings every time.

Meet your host

As Chief Marketing Officer at Revinate, Karen Stephens is focused on driving long-term growth by building Revinate’s brand equity, product marketing, and customer acquisition strategies. Her deep connections with hospitality industry leaders play a key role in crafting strategic partnerships.

Karen is also the host of The Hotel Moment Podcast, where she interviews top players in the hospitality industry. Karen has been with Revinate for over 11 years, leading Revinate’s global GTM teams. Her most recent transition was from Chief Revenue Officer, where she led the team in their highest booking quarter to date in Q4 2023.

Karen has more than 25 years of expertise in global hospitality technology and online distribution — including managing global accounts in travel and hospitality organizations such as Travelocity and lastminute.com

Connect with Karen

Transcript

Main Intro – 00:00:04: Welcome to the Hotel Moment podcast presented by Revinate, the podcast where we discuss how hotel technology shapes every moment of the hotelier’s experience. Tune in as we explore the cutting-edge technology transforming the hospitality industry and hear from experts and visionaries shaping the future of guest experiences. Whether you’re a hotelier or a tech enthusiast, you’re in the right place. Let’s dive in and discover how we can elevate the art of hospitality together.

Karen Stephens – 00:00:36: Hello, and welcome to the Hotel Moment Podcast. I am your host, Karen Stephens, the Chief Marketing Officer of Revinate. And on today’s episode, we are thrilled to have Marc Winchell, the Corporate CRM at Pacific Hospitality Group, a luxury hotel and resort management company. With over a decade of experience in hospitality marketing and guest experience management, Marc knows more than a thing or two about developing and implementing strategies that create lasting emotional connections between guests and brands. His expertise lies in building brand loyalty through personalized guest experiences, and he has been instrumental in the design and execution of successful loyalty programs like the one at PHG.

Prior to his current role, Marc held leadership positions at JC Resorts and Grand Pacific Resorts, where he honed his skills in CRM marketing performance, and resort destination experiences. So today’s conversation really centers around Stay Golden, which is the loyalty program that Marc and his team implemented for The Meritage Collection. So The Meritage Collection is a collection of independents that’s part of Pacific Hospitality Group. Beautiful properties. If you’re not familiar, you should definitely look those up. So he talks a lot about Stay Golden. And I think what’s important to pick up, and what you’ll hear very clearly in this conversation is that not only is it about hotels or guests booking direct to the hotels. That is obviously important. It is what everybody is trying to do. But the other key metric is the guest satisfaction that comes off the back of participating in the loyalty program. So if you’re not sure what to do about loyalty or how you can really move the needle in terms of shifting share from OTAs, this episode is for you. And so here you go, Marc Winchell.

Marc, welcome to the podcast.

Marc Winchell – 00:02:18: Thank you for having me. What a pleasure to be here.

Karen Stephens – 00:02:21: We’re very excited to talk to you. So for those who aren’t aware, Pacific Hospitality Group is a fan favorite over here at Revinate. So we’re really excited to have you on our podcast. So what our listeners also might not know is that you’ve actually even done internal podcasts for our group. So that’s how excited we are to have you kind of share your knowledge. So just as an opening question here to get us warmed up. So you’ve worked with some of the most prominent hotels and brands in California and Hawaii. So can you tell us a bit about your journey and how you became so passionate about the guest experience?

Marc Winchell – 00:02:55: Oh, what a fun question. Yeah. I mean, so first off, yeah, I’ve been with Pacific Hospitality for almost two years now. And I just want to reiterate, they’re such an amazing company, and we’re so lucky as a team — a marketing team — to be a part of it. So I’m grateful to work for such an amazing team and company there. And I think that’s what’s so fun about hospitality in general. I think since I got into it, there’s just been this revolution of innovation and experiential marketing. And so I’ve been really, really fortunate to ride that wave. When I fell into hospitality, I was living in Hawaii at the time on the North Shore of Oahu, and got started on the marketing side with a property called Turtle Bay Resort. And during that time, they’re going through a massive brand refresh, and was able to join that team and be a part of that kind of experiential wave of innovation, guest experience first. And I’ve grown a passion for it. And what’s fun about it is now that I’m seasoned in it, I know it when I see it. I can see the spark when I see it. And that’s what I see with Pacific Hospitality, right? The Meritage Collection is just positioned in such a fun way that we’re innovating, and we’re thinking out of the box. So I’m grateful to be a part of the experience here.

Karen Stephens – 00:04:07: Yeah. So can you tell us a little bit more about Pacific Hospitality Group? You mentioned the Meritage. So can you talk a little bit about the collection, where the hotels are located for those? I’m sure people are familiar with the hotels, but maybe not the whole group.

Marc Winchell – 00:04:19: That’s an important question. So, Pacific Hospitality is made up of 12 resorts and hotels throughout the country. And then the independent side, what we call The Meritage Collection, is made up of independent resorts and hotels throughout California, Hawaii, and Texas. So four properties total and growing. So there’s growth in the future. So we wrap those in a bow under The Meritage Collection itself, and position in a way that guests can experience those properties as a whole. They can stay there and meet at each one and provide that guest experience at each one. And it’s a great collection.

Karen Stephens – 00:04:55: Yeah. So the collection, as you mentioned, it’s like independents. So they all have their own brand, their own experience, their own feel. But can you talk a little bit about your approach to loyalty? Because I think that that is really unique about what you’ve done there at Pacific Hospitality Group. So just at a high level, you’re focusing more on personalized rewards rather than points. So can you just talk a little bit about how that came together and how it works for the guest?

Marc Winchell – 00:05:19: Absolutely. So our loyalty program is called Stay Golden. So I did not come up with that name. This is something that’s been brewing in the background for Pacific Hospitality for many years. So the brand positioning and the thought process behind it is something that’s been coming, you know, building throughout the years. We just needed the right partner to get it off the ground. And so we launched Stay Golden Rewards earlier this year. I think end of January of 2024. And it took us a solid year to build the foundation for it. When we partnered with Revinate, we started that process of really building the foundational serum parts when it came to email marketing, the database, the loyalty tiers, and so forth. So we launched Stay Golden with really just a very simple approach, right? We don’t want things to be complicated with points. We want to reward guests in the moment for the moment. So when it comes to Stay Golden and loyalty as a whole, I think obviously it’s about the guest experience. We’re selling the guest experience, but we believe, and I think we feel really strongly, the only way for us to provide the most optimal guest experience or enhanced guest experience is if they book direct. We need them to book direct so we can position them in a way that we can surprise and delight them with special offers and enhancements and that personal touch with the front office or the team before they arrive. So we believe that if they book direct, we can provide that better guest experience that they would find outside of with a typical online travel agency. So with loyalty, we position those rewards pre-arrival. So as they join the loyalty program, we provide those rewards in a way that they can request them ahead of time. And the team can then, based upon availability, provide that experience and that kind of, it’s almost like an anticipation for that personalization before they arrive. And so that’s been a huge part of Stay Golden.

Karen Stephens – 00:07:14: So I think you hit on something really important there. So often when we think about direct booking, the obvious thing that’s good about direct booking is that commercially it’s good, right? You’re not paying a commission on that piece of business. So everybody knows that. But can you talk a little bit about, you kind of hit on something really important there. If they book direct, you’re able to personalize. So can you talk a little bit about the importance? It’s not just the name and the dates. What else are you picking up in that direct booking that allows you to run the personalization?

Marc Winchell – 00:07:43: Yes. So with Stay Golden, we are asking the guests for a little more information. We want to know their birthday. We want to know where they’re from. And we want to know a little bit more about them. So we’ve strategically started laying these foundational data points in our CRM strategy in a way that with that information, we’re able to personalize their stay. And we’re just getting started. We’re only barely 10 months into this. So it’s been an incredible year for us. With Stay Golden, we’ve seen really nice organic growth. And the reviews from the guests are starting to really show both from the guests and from the team. I think that’s an important part of loyalty too, is that we’re asking a lot from the operational side as well to recognize these members and to approach them a little differently. But when it comes to the need for the guest to book direct, that’s where the magic lies. So once they book direct, we’re able to communicate with them in a very personal way, pre-arrival. And kind of hyper-tailor that communication via email or even text message at this point, or SMS message. So that way we can help them personalize their stay.

Karen Stephens – 00:08:50: Right. And that is what I think is so cool. So there’s been a longstanding debate in hospitality about points and rewards. And my feeling is that in North America, beautiful collections like Meritage, you’re picking up on it’s about the experience. I think that still in some other areas, like in Asia Pacific, they’re still really stuck on loyalty for these smaller groups. And I feel like if you don’t have 30,000 rooms, in fact, we know if you don’t have 30,000 rooms, it’s just hard for a customer to ever redeem. You know, you’re just collecting points forever. And when you only have five, six hotels in the program. So I love that you’ve kind of redone the way that loyalty is imagined. And can you also talk about, because you are in the group, so there’s the stay that the person is having at the time. What happens post-stay to make sure that that guest knows that you have other properties in the collection and encourage them to kind of try the other hotels?

Marc Winchell – 00:09:41: Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned something about 30,000 rooms and all these things. And I think our approach to loyalty, I think is trying to – personalization is tough because if you’re big, you need to feel small, right? You know what I’m saying, right?

Karen Stephens – 00:09:54: I know exactly what you mean.

Marc Winchell – 00:09:56: Right? So we need to feel personal. And if it doesn’t feel personal, it just doesn’t have that magic to it. And so, for example, if that guest pre-arrival gets an email saying, We’d love for you to upgrade your stay as a 24-karat member, which is our top tier of loyalty. You get a complimentary room upgrade. So we send them that, and they can request it. And so the team will get that request, and they will prioritize that request because this is an important member, right? This is a 24-karat member. They stayed with us multiple times, multiple nights. And so it’s based upon availability, but the team knows the importance of this guest. And so they can push that up in their priority list. Find availability. And we obviously tier it in a way where it’s to the next room upgrade, but the team has that ability to surprise that guest with something even more. So it’s that ability to surprise and delight and to prioritize these guests in a way that they feel it. And that’s loyalty. That’s what it comes down to. So I really want to make sure I hit that note. I think it was an important part of it, right? That ability to, yes, we’re growing. Yes, we’ve got a lot of guests, but we need to feel small. We need to feel like we’re able to really provide that personalization and loyalty at a level that they feel it. We know their name. We know who they are, and we’re going to prioritize them. So post-stay, we do feel like there’s a lot of cross-promotion happening. A lot of our markets do share each other in a pretty meaningful way. And so what we do know, I think is an important part, is this guest is obviously a fan of the property first. The Meritage Collection is in the background. There’s brand awareness that we’re laying the foundation for. And that starts to come more full circle post-departure, where we might introduce the collection itself and that their rewards are available across the collection of their properties. And of course, there’s that ability to build. So how our loyalty program works is the more you stay, the more you earn. So if you stay more than four nights a year, you actually hit our 24-karat tier. So the longer you stay, the more you’re rewarded. And of course, that falls across over multiple stays. But yeah, post-stay, we begin to market the collection itself as a whole so that the guests can use those rewards across the collection.

Karen Stephens – 00:12:17: Right. And I think what I love about that is, again, the hotels are so beautiful and unique. And I think that’s what makes this program so special. But wow, when you get that marketing email to stay at the next one in Napa, or to go to Hawaii, or whatever, it might be quite… It’s like, wow. I mean, just talk about… When I think about the importance of travel and holiday for people now, especially post-COVID, it’s like, that’s the thing that you look forward to all year. So that’s what I love so much about this program because it really makes that so special.

Marc Winchell – 00:12:45: Absolutely. And I think you mentioned Kauai, our co-op care property in Kauai. It’s an amazing property. And that property itself absolutely shares the market with California and Texas. And so when we start to lay that kind of collection seed post-stay with these introductions to you, you’re going to reach 24K membership, check out other properties, and we’d love to see you there. And the great thing about Kauai is because it does share that market, this is absolutely on their list. Are you kidding me? It’s an amazing property. The pictures are incredible. And obviously, it’s just the next step, right, in your journey of travel. So that’s something that’s been so fun to see, the cross-promotion available. And you start to layer in Napa Valley, too, and all these others that are just great destinations.

Karen Stephens – 00:13:30: It’s wonderful. I mean, I live in California, so already my brain is ticking like, OK, well, I could go to Napa for a couple nights, and then go here for a couple nights, and then boom! Hawaii and I’m diamond 24 karat. Let’s go. I love that. So let’s talk a little bit about the voice channel as well. So the voice channel, I think, is something, again, where I think a lot of people think, Oh, people don’t use voice very often or that people are booking online and they’re not calling in. But what we see in our data is obviously for brands like yours, it’s a huge part of the equation. So can you talk a little bit about voice and how that layers into the overall strategy for the hotel?

Marc Winchell – 00:14:08: Absolutely. You brought up a really big point is that when we made the switch back to Revinate, our biggest goal was to centralize our CRM approach. And so with the channel of voice, that obviously is part of our central strategy. So the call center is there in a very important way because guests need to understand more. There’s more to their stay than just the destination, right? They’ve got questions about room types. We’ve got a lot of properties with a lot of different room types. And so there’s a lot of knowledge there. And we rely on the call center to be able to provide that knowledge in a meaningful way. And also when it comes to loyalty, the way we built Stay Golden is it’s obviously complimentary. And you can book that room first before enrolling. You can book the Stay Golden member rate, which is 10% below our best available rate. Whatever you’d like. All you need to do is enroll before you check-in. And so for the call center, our approach is this is an evergreen, I’m going to say hook. That is the wrong word for it. But it’s their evergreen approach for them to use. So obviously the call center is going to talk about the best available rate for the guest. And then they’re going to introduce, if they’re not a member, to join Stay Golden before they arrive. And they could save 10% today. And so what that is doing is allowing us to compete with these online travel agencies in a very meaningful way that we can provide that value right away for the guest by joining our program. And of course, we have incentives there with rewards built in with a welcome cocktail and spa enhancement if they choose to go to the spa. And so we understand the importance of booking direct. That once, if we can get these guests to book direct, we can wow them with the ability to introduce loyalty, and to introduce this personalization. And so the call center, they know it, they love it. They love this ability to have this kind of evergreen approach for the guests. And it’s been working really, really well.

Karen Stephens – 00:16:09: Yeah, you’re surprising and delighting right from the jump. And I think that’s important too. The stay doesn’t start at check-in. The stay starts at the reservation. So that if the agent is already coming out, providing value, getting them excited before they go, and then all of your communications kick in with the pre-arrival, it’s like the guest is already on holiday before they even step foot on property, you know? So I love how that all ties together. I think another thing we want to mention is that part of the vision of Revinate, and what we’re in the middle of now, is making sure that we’re providing even more data to the agents so that the rich guest profile starts to populate while folks are on the phone. And for anybody who hasn’t been in a call center, the amount of information these agents are able to work through and work with the guest on the phone that is seamless is pretty incredible. So we’re looking to just make that easier and better for the agent. But they really are the first, kind of the first touch of guest experience before people arrive on property.

Marc Winchell – 00:17:08: Absolutely. And we are so thankful for the call center. I have a great relationship with them. We touch base almost weekly, if not more, these days. So, and I think, like I said, providing them with that ability to surprise and delight that guest has just been amazing. And we’re just getting started. We approach it in a way where we can add that value right away for the guest and get them in the customer journey where we can then start to continue to surprise and delight them. I’m under the impression, and I could be wrong. I could be wrong on this. But a lot of people are like me. We’re going on vacation. I know it. My wife is telling me, We’re going. I’m going to book the room. I’m going to get it done. I’m going to book the best rate I can, right away. And then in a couple of weeks, I’m going to think to myself, You know what? I think we should go for a better room type Right? Let’s upgrade our stay. I think a lot of people do think like me. And this is our approach to loyalty is like, add the value right away. Let’s give them some time and let them then personalize their state, whether it’s for a room upgrade, whether it’s for special offers that we make available in those pre-arrivals amenities for their stay and so forth. So I love the concept of allowing the guests to put themselves in the driver’s seat, and personalize their stay ahead of time. I think it fits really well with my lifestyle, and I’m under the impression a lot of people feel the same, and we’ve seen the fruits of it. It’s been an incredible experience so far.

Karen Stephens – 00:18:29: I think you’re right. I think people get that, you know? It’s like, let’s get it on the calendar. So make the booking. Let’s put it out there. We have something to look forward to. And then as the date approaches, you start thinking, Huh. All right, well, what do we want to do while we’re there? And should we go to the spa? Do we need a better room type? And so I think that’s brilliant and kind of peppering that communication in along the way. Again, peppering is kind of a weird word, but you know what I’m saying?

Marc Winchell – 00:18:51: Absolutely, right. And I’ve learned that we over-communicate with the guests before their stay because there’s so much anticipation. And so we are doing that. Aggressive is the wrong word. We’re over-communicating and allowing them to have all the opportunities they’d need to personalize that stay. And we’re seeing the fruits of it. So it’s been an amazing journey. And like I said, we’re just getting off the ground here. We’re only 10 months into, we’ve got some big plans and we’re really excited for our roadmap for 25. So yeah, more to come.

Karen Stephens – 00:19:24: You know what? To be able to partner with someone like you, with your team, is so fun for our team because we obviously have a group of professionals. We have CSMs, and we have folks. And as I mentioned at the top of the call, we love talking to Marc because we get all of these ideas that inspire us and think, Oh. The best thing is when somebody takes your platform, and takes it to the next level with things you might not have even thought of. So that’s been really cool for us. So Marc, how do you measure success? For folks out there who don’t have a loyalty program, they’re thinking about doing this. Obviously, the name of the game is make sure you can articulate how cool everything is to the powers that be, right? You need to be able to say, Hey, we made the investment. So how do you measure success for this program?

Marc Winchell – 00:20:03: That’s the million-dollar question, right? And so-

Karen Stephens – 00:20:05: Literally, right?

Marc Winchell – 00:20:07: Yes, but in a couple of different ways. Our overarching goal is to incentivize guests to book direct because we know we can win them over if they book direct. So first off, we’re shifting guests to book direct. We see it in the data. We’re seeing our results. We’re starting to make that journey happen. I remember when I first got started in hospitality, it was like turning that faucet off for OTAs. It’s so easy just to dial it up because they just do the work for you. So we’re slowly turning that faucet off, and we’re incentivizing guests to book direct. So then the next real big win is in the promoters. So I mentioned centralizing our CRM. We needed to have it all under one hood so we could see and understand the full guest journey. So we introduced guest feedback with Revinate in December of ‘23. So we’re only 11 months into it. So that customized survey and reputation management is just invaluable when it comes to understanding the guest experience. And so we introduced the Net Promoter Score. This is a new KPI for us with guest feedback. And this is the score that doesn’t lie. It tells the bitter truth or the sweet truth, right? And so. And so here we are, I think the results are in the data. We’re starting to really see these promoters grow in a meaningful way, and loyalty is starting to take root in that way where the guests are providing that data for us. And so with that, I mean, I think because we’re only 10 months into it here, most guests don’t go multiple times a year. And so we’re really looking forward to seeing what 2025 has in store for us when it comes to this and that cross-promotion, that multiple stay, that stay that needs to be longer because that guest experience really, really starts to blossom in a way when they extend their stay just that little bit longer to experience the destination. And that’s probably a little bit of a hint into where our roadmap’s going. We really want to be the gateway for the destination for the guest. We want them to come through us to experience the destination, whether it’s on-property experiences or off-property experiences. We want to provide that experience in a very tailored, personal way that wows them from the first call to the call center or that booking of the Stay Golden member rate all the way through.

Karen Stephens – 00:22:25: I love that, especially because you’re in such beautiful locations. So if you’re in Kauai and it’s about the hotel, but it’s also about everything around the hotel and the experience of being on the island. And oh, okay, well, I’m going to watch this space. That’s really exciting.

Marc Winchell – 00:22:41: Yes, it’s an easy sell because our destinations are incredible, and the team’s there too. And so like I said, it’s all about the guest experience. And if we can convince them to book direct in a way that they know it, the guest knows that, If I book direct, I’m going to have a better experience.

Karen Stephens – 00:22:57: I’m going to get the upgrade. I’m going to get the free drink. I’m going to get more hospitality when I show up. Of course, your team is going to take care of all guests no matter how they arrive. But with Stay Golden, we know enough more, and you know enough about them to just offer that next level. I guess it’s the best way I want to say that. Okay, so Marc, my final question for you. If I’m a listener here and I’ve got a portfolio of hotels and I’m like, you know what? I’ve got that OTA faucet is running at full speed. Like I need to start twisting that dial. I’m flooding the hotel with OTA. Where do you start? Where is the starting point to think about how do I get that share shift?

Marc Winchell – 00:23:38: I really think it’s believing that you do provide a better experience direct. It’s so easy to rely on the loyalty of what these OTAs provide. And that is the truth, right? There are guests that are loyal to these OTAs because they provide a consistent experience. And so if you’ve got the tools to be able to provide that pre-arrival experience for the guest, you just have to believe that they will actually love it and start to layer in these experiences that matter and put those in the forefront in a way that the guest can anticipate for them and begin that communication with the property. Because at the end of the day, I’m in the background here. I kind of paint the story. And then, of course, the property lives the actual moment. And so if I can make that connection with the guest, and the property to start tailoring their stay ahead of time, that’s when that relationship begins. And then if it begins in a way that’s pre-arrival, that they’re anticipating, that moment to come, and that personalization has already happened, we’ve already set that stay up for success. So just believe in the journey, and start to really map it out in a way that’s meaningful, and the fruits will come.

Karen Stephens – 00:24:46: Believe in the journey. I love it. All right. We’re going to leave it there. Marc, this has been a pleasure. My guest has been Marc Winchell, who is the Corporate CRM at Pacific Hospitality Group. Thank you so much for the conversation, Marc.

Marc Winchell – 00:24:58: Appreciate the time.

Outro – 00:25:04: Thank you for joining us on this episode of Hotel Moment by Revinate. Our community of hoteliers is growing every week, and each guest we speak to is tackling industry challenges with the innovation and flexibility that our industry demands. If you enjoyed today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review. And if you’re listening on YouTube, please like the video and subscribe for more content. For more information, head to revinate.com/hotelmomentpodcast. Until next time, keep innovating.

About Revinate

Revinate is a direct booking platform that leads the hospitality industry in driving direct revenue and increased profitability.

Our products and our people combine to give hoteliers the superpowers they need to crush their goals. With Revinate, hoteliers shift share away from OTAs and drive tangible results across an individual property or a portfolio. Our industry-leading, AI-powered, customer data platform collects, unifies and, synthesizes data giving hoteliers a foundational advantage.

Hoteliers gain critical intelligence – guest lifetime spend, stay preferences, ancillary revenue, and more. With our Rich Guest Profiles database, hoteliers don't need to guess who their most profitable guests are, or how to drive conversions across email, voice, messaging, and digital channels.

Revinate's direct booking platform and omnichannel communication technology powers 900+ million Rich Guest Profiles across 12,500+ hotels to drive over $17 billion in direct revenue.

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